We are better
Or, What the Right Doesn't Get.
Avedon Carol writes the most succinct refutation of the right's argument that criticism of the US is wrong because we're not as bad as the terrorists:
Calling people "terrorists" is already a criticism; it really isn't necessary to elaborate by saying that terrorists are engaging in activities that terrorize people.
The term "United States of America", however, is supposed to mean something else. If Mr. Hiatt prefers that we make direct comparisons between the two, we will have to start saying things like, "America's terrorists are not as bad as the Muslim terrorists." Then we can sit around and parse each terroristic act to see who is worse.
Perfect.
We are better than torture. Terrorists are scum; dictators are scum. We are better than them. We hold ourselves to a higher standard: NO TORTURE!
(Via Atrios)
posted by Luke Francl @ 10:13 AM |
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8 Comments:
If as you hypothosis the United States is torturing prisonners. Lets see the list of torture techniques that are allowed and used. Then we can have a discussion of the horribleness of each of them!
You cannot use any examples where the torture subsequently resulted in the legal punishment of the tortured, sorry Abu Graib is out.
To help you out I will list one light non-injurious bumping. I.E finger in the chest, touching, placing hand on shoulder.
Dave
No Abu Ghraib?
How about this, then:
On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold....On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.
Unpleasant yep, other than being chain to the floor sounds like living conditions in my house over the past month or so.
Loud Rap music, check.
Christine Agulara music, check.
Unbearable Cold, check
Hot steamy and sweaty, check.
Yet you continue to miss the big picture, these are not honorable soldiers these are people who will truely torture, kill and terrorize anyone who wants to beleive in a society they find abhorent. If they get thier way YOU will be among the first to threated like a mosquito on hot summers evening.
Dave
Do you chain your kids to the floor until they shit themselves, too?
While I do not chain the kids, I still get a surprise in the laundry every once and a while.
Would it not be in the detainees interest to soil themselves thus making the kind americans clean them up and more importantly stop todays questioning. Remember it is the goal of the detainees to resist questioning and stop it if possible.
Just like lying about abuse of the holy book and false claims of torture as outlined in thier own training materials.
For a better perspective perhaps thoughts from someone who knows what a gulag is. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/17/AR2005061701218.html
As of today the number who have killed in gitmo 0. The number released 20 and rearrested/killed engaging in terrorist activities 12. These are not nice people making thier detainment uncomfortable still does not reach most peoples definition of torture.
Since you failed to list all the "torture" techniques I will now list them for you. As perviously mentioned light physical contact, extended standing (commonly refered to as the Disneyland technique), and general hassling (thus the loud music, using female interragators and the short duration confinement we are discussing). That is it beatings not allowed, mutalation no chance, rape/killing of family members not going to happen, denial of decent food (ok MRE's can be unappealling) water served up hot and cold. Holy books all provided and held to levels of reverense never before seen.
Dave
The more real detail that comes out about this, the sillier the left looks.
Extended standing, finger pointing (odd that the left finds this objectionable.) Next thing you know we'll be serving red wine with fish!
-Censored.
http://rasmussenreports.com/2005/Gitmo.htm
20% of Americans don't feel Gitmo detainees are treated fairly.
34% are good with it.
36% say "Better than they deserve."
Once again, clearly out of touch. How many more seats you think the Dems will loose next election.
Censored.
I still think the title of the post says it all, "We are better." But Censored, say whatever you need to say in order to make yourself feel better.
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