Minneapolis to Crawford
Minnesota Stories: Cindy Sheehan's plight resonated strongly with Minneapolis mom Alex. She and her young daughter Ella journeyed from Minneapolis to Camp Casey in Crawford, Texas and shot some video. This footage is from Aug 12-13, 2005. The whole family is down there now and you can follow along at EllaGoes.typepad.com.
posted by Chuck Olsen @ 5:04 AM |
| 
21 Comments:
Luke: "Ridiculing grieving mothers?
A new low, or just business as usual?"
I would have responded to your post but like usual Chuck decided we were done with that post.
Using a grieving mother to further push your agenda. I would say business as usual for you'all. This mother has every right to grieve as she see's fit. It's unfortunate that her way of grieving has created a F'n circus in Crawford. Her and her family did visit with the president, correct? She wants to protest the war, And I believe she has every right to do so. But to do it in the name of her son, a soldier who went to iraq and came home and believed so much in what we are doing in iraq He volunteered to go back for a second tour. Her own family doesn't support her and the families of other fallen soldiers have asked that there names be removed from the crosses she has put up in crawford. Protest the war, just don't do it in the name of someone who believed in the war. For that i believe she can be ridiculed.
Scott K
Who has more of a right to speak for this soldier? You or his mother? All you pro-war zealots will stop at nothing to force your viewpoint on everyone, just because a soldier has honor in his/her duties does not automatically mean that he/she believes in the current mission. You have a great deal of gaul to speak for this soldier's views, his mother has that right, not you, nor your Rovelian talking points. If you knew anything about honor you would understand, but no, you just want anyone who dares question your sainted King George ridiculed.
-jasonb
And with that, this thread is closed.
KIDDING!
FYI Scott, I close a thread when it strays into personal territory so things don't get ugly. Of course things gets ugly anyway, but we try to keep the ugly related to politics not people.
And now, back to fighting over who has a right to use soldier symbolism for their side.
No one would mind if she simply said she was against the war, and she lost her son.
That provokes sympathy in me. I've done funeral details and I've seen mothers and young wives recieve flags, and its sad. Its a high price to pay for our way of life.
But what she's done is to take the good name of her son (and based on the accounts of this young trooper it was a good name) and she has used it in a way that is contradictory to the way he chose to live his life, to support an agenda that he didn't support, and her sincerity is suspect.
This is no grieving mother.
Who better to speak for him? I can't help but notice there has been a complete media blackout of statements from his brothers in arms. The men with whom he chose to spend his life rather than with his mommy, the ones with him when he fell in battle. Yeah, how about those guys? Well, they did tell us what they thought to the young man - they awarded him a Bronze Star.
They gave it to him to celebrate what he stood for, and more importantly his actions. And what he stood for is not what his mother's doing out in a field in Texas with the clowns from Moveon.org.
I don't just pity this woman. I pity all of you that haven't had the honor and the privledge (or maybe the stones) to serve our country in its armed forces. Sure, there's a few bitter goofballs like that REMF CDR that come by, but I'm talking about the real warriors, not the pencil pilots. For those that have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
-Censored
Shorter Censored: I know what Casey Sheehan would want better than his own mother.
- Redacted
That's right everyone - in case you forgot, Censored served in the military! What's that? You didn't forget, because he flaunts it in every comment he makes?
And what's this you say - you've already kissed his boots in gratitude for having apparently protected our freedom...from some threat, somewhere? And therefore acknowledged his freedom tastes better then yours?
Well then, at ease. But the rest of you maggots, starts tasting the freedom on the bottom of Censored's boots.
-- The Gatekeeper
JasonB, you should really read a post before you pop off. Who's using this womens grieving process to push there agenda? Who has turned this grieving womens stance into a political circus in crawford? Us so called Zealots and are rovelian points? I think facts will dispute that. I got my info from the media, ya know they interview family members and then print it as quotes in a newspaper. I also got my info from fellow soldiers who served with him that spoke about his belief in what we are doing. And most importantly, If he didn't believe in what he was doing over there, Why would he volunteer to go back? So i will continue to base my opinions on fact, and you can continue to call me names and put me down with your political rhetoric.
One more point, I would find it hard to believe that Sheehans son would be comfortable seeing his mother used as a billboard to push either sides agenda!!! although she seems to fit right into it. So to sum it up for ya JB, you can blow it out your ass dickweed.
scott k
Shorter scott k: I know what Casey Sheehan would want better than his own mother.
- Redacted
Still funny, still true!
I don't think there's any question that both The Left and The Other Side use the respected symbolism of soldiers (living and deceased) toward political ends. It's not necessarily wrong - they are a powerful American symbol and it would be difficult to make any kind of larger statement, or get support for your cause, without bringing soldiers into it.
I do have a problem with something in this video - the police liason lawyer guy says "We're better than them; we're right - they're wrong...." I hate that kind of talk. It might be wise to use that language as a crowd control tactic, but I strongly disagree with such simplistic right/wrong, us/them terms. The world is more complicated. People are more complicated. And most people are good and moral, and have reasons for believing what they believe so strongly.
shorter Redacted: Dipshit with nothing to say or add to conversation.
My opinion is based on facts, what i have read and heard about this fiasco. Never once in my post did I claim to no casey, his mother or what there beliefs are. Actions speak louder than words, and in Casey's actions ( in my opinion )He believed in what america is doing in iraq. so much as to volunteer to go back for a second tour. Just my opinion dipshit.
Scott k
Yes, why would someone volunteer and go back? Could it be that they want to be a career guy? No it has to be because he believe in the present mission, that is of coarse the only answer.
There are many reasons for people to stay with the military, many honorable and decent reasons, but people constantly pointing to a single unanswerable question of belief does not do it for me. Casey Sheehan's beliefs are not known from any source I can find, and thus we can come up with anything we want, and the constant rant from the right wing is that he believed in the mission. I happen to know guys over there too, and they think "our mission" in Iraq is as much of a sham as I do, based on lies and arrogance, but they do their job the best they can and with honor, and if they are in it for a career, they stay.
Who has the most right to speak for Casey Sheehan? Well in my mind it is his family, and I believe that existing law would back that up in many ways. So, for me, I respect his mother's quest, and she has every right to speak for him.
-jasonb
Scott, my man, let's keep the dickweeds and dipshits to a minumum hey?
Jasonb, I think we actually agree on the basics. I get riled up because i have a son in iraq and 2 more in the service so I get a little personal when it comes to the soldiers. And i'm tired of being called a warmongering zealot because i believe in the mission. I have to believe in the mission.
Chuck, how about buttplug :).
Well-documented fact: CHUCK LOVES BUTTPLUGS
Scott K - is that you with a son in Iraq? I don't think we knew this. Part of me feels like all bets are off in that case, because I totally understand the need to soldiers and their families to believe in the mission. At the same time I get frustrated because the mission has changed and been bungled over and over, and I'd think that's even more reason to hold the Commander-in-Chief's feet to the fire. (Not to mention Rumsfeld.)
Scott K,
I guess my premise is, you don't have to believe in the mission, you should and only could believe in your son's honor and dedication to the military. Honoring the military does not mean blind allegiance to our political leaders. If we were only in Afghanistan, I, along with a strong majority of people would respect and at least understand the mission, but Iraq is not that. Iraq is a misguided and poorly managed use of our military, if anything we should condemn our political leaders for the bungling that has gone into the planning of this "mission" despite the reasons for the war. But, I also believe, according to the facts that we were mislead, if not lied to, for the reasons for this war. This should not discredit the soldiers who serve, but it should discredit those who sent them there. This war is now costing us more in current dollars that World War I did ( http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0829/p15s01-cogn.html ), is it really worth that? Was Sad'm really worth that? I would argue NO. Why are our efforts not focused in Afghanistan? Where did the attack on this county originate? All these questions matter, and the blame can be easily pointed at our current administration. Honoring your sons does not mean agreeing to the mission. It might actually be more honorable to the military not to use them so cavalierly.
We get caught up in our rhetoric, and we stop listening to each other sometimes, and with that we all loose. I think that Bush has committed high crimes and definitely misdemeanors in this "mission" but we don't need to think any less of our soldiers doing their duties. We are mixed up in a part of the world that has historically sunk great empires, why do we think we'll do much better?
Mrs Sheehan is bringing back the question of WHY? and finally a greater percentage of the population is finally wondering too.
-jasonb
Yes chuck that would be me. Remember a few years ago the twins were 18 and a 15 year old. Well all 3 are now adults and have all joined the army national guard. ( wich we all know by now is no longer part time ). They love it and the other 2 can't wait to go oversees. I'm not sure if it is out of love for the country or there young and stupid and think they are indestructable( spell check). I think it is a little of both. There mother and I are very proud of them and support them in whatever they choose to do. I don't expect the administration to come out and lay there battle plans on the table ( I don't think you do either ), but like i said in my previous post "Actions speak louder than words" and the actions of this mission lately, leave alot of questions to be asked. So yes Chuck I do agree, the fire needs to stay hot. In this house we believe in the mission. And if we didn't it wouldn't matter because 3 young men that we love do believe. So if i seem biased in my post, it's because i am.
scott K
Scott... full respect here. I know you're very proud of your kids and I hope they stay safe.
Scott,
You and your family are sacrificing much more than most Americans. Thank you.
All of us here at the New Patriot want nothing more than for your sons to come home safe, believe me.
Personally, I hope we can turn things over to the Iraqis as soon as possible so our troops can start coming home.
Even as a newcomer to this blog, I agree, full respect is in order, absolutely. It is a great thing to serve this country, in arms, in peace or in office. Good luck to yours, in this we are one.
-jasonb
I appreciate the thoughts guys. Even though we disagree on subjects, and sometimes get a little nasty,( I know I can ). We all want the same result, The oppurtunity to live life and be happy.
Scott K
This is the best warm fuzzy I recall on the New Patriot. Thanks to Scott telling us where he's coming from and being real, not trapped in ideology.
GROUP HUG YOU GUYS!
Post a Comment
<< Home