Old Fashioned Patriot
The Old Fashioned Patriot is for "For folks who believe that patriotism doesn't include racist, jingoist, murderous lies." Sounds sort of like us New Patriots.
posted by Luke Francl @ 11:00 PM |
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2/08/2005 |
THE NEW PATRIOTSPREVIOUS POSTS
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16 Comments:
No, you "New Patriots" are mostly morons.
However, there is one that's worse. That'd be Dykstra. He's a hypocrit. I say that because he posts things like his save social security rant, while he outsources US jobs overseas. (On behalf of Halliburton no less.)
He's posted on quality of life while he deprives foreign workers of the retirement benefits he identifies as so important. He's written that outsourcing allows him to create US jobs, and then refuted the same "ends justifies the means" arguements when related to things like freeing Iraq and Afghanistan.
What's more likely is he realizes that social security is a huge competative disadvantage for US workers, one that very significantly raises their costs to employers. Protecting social security means more opportunity to make money by sending jobs overseas.
Finally, when someone calls him what he is, the posts are deleted. Y'all are shameful.
Don't stop now anon., where are the details? Where are you getting your info? It's not fair to just throw this kind of accusation out there without any proof.
Are you saying that Chris works for Haliburton?
Finally, when someone calls him what he is, the posts are deleted. Y'all are shameful.No, you've made your "point" already. The posts that were deleted were just short 3-4 word bursts of name-calling (hypo-chris, etc.). If you want to discuss ideas, that's fine... straight-up name-calling, on the other hand, won't fly.
Really Ryan?
How about this?
"Alright so if some fat guy with a mullet watches you take a leak tomorrow at the Uptown, it's just Swiftee. Got it."
From this thread, "http://newpatriot.org/2005/02/norwegianitys-first-birthday-party.html#comments"
"straight-up name-calling, on the other hand, won't fly." You mean straight up name-calling of you or your buddies won't fly.
For anyone interested, the thread in question begins with the 6th response post here - http://newpatriot.org/2005/02/seniors-pay.html#comments
The Halliburton connection is there.
Who let all these trolls in here?
Cowardly personal attacks and sleuthing - the usual recourse when facts and reason aren't available. Terrific! Glad we bother you so much.
Time to buy some new troll traps.
You'll notice that a number of the comments on the post you reference are inflammatory. While "Hypo-chris" may be a witty little play on words, we are in no way obligated to allow you to dump it wherever you please.
About deleting comments - we're not The Borg Mind, so we all have different thoughts on this. But generally, we prefer to let comments stand unless it's particularly offensive. Let idiots look like idiots, I say.
I have deleted a comment maybe once, and have also shut down a thread that had deveolved into insults.
These personal attacks don't do anybody any good, people. Attack the position, not the person. Anything less is juvenile and pointless. Can we all try to raise the bar here and give each other some minimum level of respect please?
Ryan - So your censorship is the beneficial kind?
Chuck - I will concede that the "troll sleuthing" was an ad hominem tu quoque on Chris. However, it was offered as a response to Chris' appeal to authority, "I will tell you..." and "I guarantee you..." When you hold yourself up as an authority, scrutiny of your credentials is warranted.
Had he instead offered supporting evidence, certainly you'd agree that impeachement of that evidence (perhaps evaluating the source?) would be legitmate. This is no different. Chris invites scrutiny when he offers himself as an authority.
If you want to have a exchange that is based on facts, positions etc, cite them. I have consistently provided links to the information I've cited. Chris hasn't. I've also documented Chris hypocrisy. Its not an unsubstanciated criticism.
Oh for heaven's sakes.
Anonymous, you are making some assumptions about business are inaccurate. You are making assumptions about me that are even less true. Please put the attacks on hold and listen. I am perfectly willing to engage in a reasonable conversation.
1) I don't work for Halliburton. I never have. A company I once worked for (EPAM) made some software for Halliburton before I worked there and still uses the reference. I would consider very carefully whether I accepted a contract from Halliburton. It isn't out of the question. They do some important work. I strongly believe the no-bid relationship they have with the current administration and their role in formulating US energy policy out of the view of tax payers is destructive. I have worked for other defense contractors, Sikorsky for example, in the past.
2) In no way do I deprive foreign workers of retirement benefits. That's just silly. You can't deprive something from someone if they don't have it in the first place. It's true I pay them less than people in similar jobs make here. But I pay them far above average for similar jobs over there. Just like here, they earn benefits with tenure.
3) You don't fire workers willy nilly if you want to survive as a company. You treat employees great. It's true, we offer the service of entering short-term business arrangements with customers. That's called a contract. When the contract is done my employees still work for me. If I have done my job right, I have sold another gig and can migrate my people to another client. Virtually all consulting agencies work in the same manner. If you hire and fire, hire, fire, hire, fire - nobody will work for you. It just isn't a practical reality.
4) Outsourcing can create jobs at home. Example: I won business in Mexico and the UK. I used foreign resources to complete the work. Not only did I have to hire American project managers, but all the profit came home. I kept was able to use that money to hire other US-based employees. Now, in this as, Mexico and the UK outsourced to the USA. Is that bad? None of the Americans I hired, who were previously unemployed, seemed to think so.
Also, freedom is made up of three things: Liberty, Safety, Opportunity. I believe people in mature, ethical business relationships seed the ground so these qualities can flourish. In general, people are less likely to blow each other up if they are in mutually beneficial relationships.
Outsourcing hotspots are all emerging markets. As they mature economically, they are able to buy OUR products and services. Creating new markets through economic development is good for the US.
5) Do you believe in freedom? I do. I believe I have the right to sell a product or service and you have the right to buy it. I believe a person in another country has the right to sell a product or service and I have the right to buy that from that person. I also believe that worker saftey, environmental concerns, health care, retirement, a 40 hour work week, etc are the front lines of social justice. Freedom=Liberty, Safety, Opportunity. Liberty and Safety are the responsibility of the government and civilized free citizens. Opportunity in a free society is, for the most part, provided by entrepreneurs. That's even more true in a global economy.
6) The idea that I somehow want to preserve social security in order to keep US resources expensive so I can increase the likelyhood that business will want to outsource more is - frankly - pretty twisted. Let me tell you something - poverty is not a competitive advantage. National financial ruin is not a competitve advantage. Multi-trillion dollar deficits are not a competitive advantage. Social security - not that bad - good in fact. It keeps the senior population in this country above the poverty line. As I have stated, quality of life is a competitive advantage.
That's all the energy I want to spend on this thread.
'Attack the position, not the person.'
So that is what this site has been doing to president bush. I get It. The reason us trolls keep coming to your site is because it's some of the best free entertainment in town. And Dykstra is being called exactly what he is, A Fucking Hypocrite.
Looks like you've been measured and come up short. The name "Hypo-Chris" sticks, at least until Ryan deletes the posts.
"Outsourcing can create jobs at home"
So, you agree with White House economist Gregory Mankiw and with the President himself.
Noted.
"In no way do I deprive foreign workers of retirement benefits. That's just silly. You can't deprive something from someone if they don't have it in the first place. It's true I pay them less than people in similar jobs make here. But I pay them far above average for similar jobs over there."
LOL! Noted.
Swiftee--
Yes. It's the one area in which the Pres and I basically agree.
I think we'll have to look at TypeKey or some other system to make commenters register with a valid email address. Weed out some of the anonymous trolls pooping in our living room.
Whatsamatter Chuckie,
Dykstra's exposed as a hypocrite.
Ryan's admitted he censors posts.
Luke's exposed himself as a moron (over and over actually.)
Worried you're next?
See, you're only making my point crystal clear. Sorry little troll, the grownups are trying to talk. Why don't you run along hmm?
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