2/06/2005

Senior's Pay

MoveOn's anti-privatization ad is a direct takeoff on Charlie Fisher's Bush in 30 Seconds-winning ad Child's Pay. Nice. I wonder if he directed the new one, too.

(In a previous life, I used to blog political ads.)

Update: Duh, I need to learn how to read links. The ad was directed by Charlie Fisher.

Also, FactCheck doesn't like this ad, but Max Sawicky fact checks the fact check and finds it lacking:

[T]hey accuse MoveOn of unfactuality because the latter claims that the White House is scheming to reduce Social Security benefits. I would have said any fool knows this, until today. There is no reason to talk about the long-term shortfall in the program unless you mean to either raise taxes -- which Bush has ruled out -- or cut benefits. Nor is there any ambiguity about how much. If you eliminate the shortfall in perpetuity, you hammer benefits. It's not a haircut.

These benefit cuts apply to the elderly because, duh, that's who retires. So the MoveOn ad has pictures of elderly persons. Factcheck sez this is wrong because the benefits of the presently elderly are not on the table. Oh please."

Update 2: The GOP is back to their old tricks, using pressure tactics to try to get TV stations to pull this ad. From today's edition of The Note:

And how's this for hardball? The RNC is asking television stations to stop airing the MoveOn.org ads, incidentally. This morning, the party sent out the letter from deputy counsel Michael Bayes that said the spot "falsely and maliciously" claims that the President's Social Security plan cuts benefits up to 46 percent to pay for private accounts, and reminded stations that as FCC license holders, they have a responsibility "to avoid broadcasting deliberate misrepresentations of the facts."

Update 3: MoveOn responds to the RNC:

Tom Matzzie, Washington Director of MoveOn.Org responded today to false charges by RNC Deputy Counsel, Michael Bayes:

"The President is continuing a campaign of deception. The fact that the President's plan would cut benefits by up to 46 percent is drawn directly from analysis by the chief actuary at the Social Security Administration. ('Estimates of Financial Effects for Three Models Developed by the President's Commission to Strengthen Social Security,' page 75: Estimated change in monthly benefit for retiree at 65...row 42 sets 2, 3 and 4). We stand by the ad. All stations are airing our ad as scheduled.

"Ironically, the president is coming after us while he is deceiving the public. The president is misleading when he says 'Social Security is going bankrupt.'

"Our statement is supported by an ideologically-broad range of prominent economists, including Henry Aaron of The Brookings Institution, Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research and Ross Eisenbrey of the Economic Policy Institute. Further, the benefit cut figure has been widely reported in major daily newspapers, including The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal.

"Instead of threatening TV stations and trying to infringe on the free speech rights of MoveOn.org, the administration should come clean and answer the following questions:

-- How big will the benefit cuts be for future retirees?

-- How much new debt will be required for their proposal?

-- How many billions in fees will financial services corporations profit from privatization?"

Update 4: MoveOn and a stable of economists respond to FactCheck (and take FactCheck to the woodshed):

In referring to a cut against scheduled benefit levels, MoveOn was using the standard framing for the whole debate. There would be no Social Security shortfall whatsoever, if the goal was simply to provide the current benefit level. President Bush and proponents of privatization have consistently used the scheduled benefit as their benchmark when they have warned of benefit cuts, if no changes are made. This statement is not true if a benefit cut means a cut against current benefit levels -- it only could be true if they are referring to scheduled future benefits. In this sense, MoveOn.org has referred to benefit "cuts" in exactly the same way as the president. If Fact Check only considers a cut as a reduction against current benefit levels, then it should correct the president and other proponents of privatization who routinely warn of benefit cuts....

Since the longstanding debate on Social Security has proceeded from the standpoint that not paying currently scheduled benefits is a "cut," and that is the framing that both sides in the debate have adopted, and FactCheck itself finds it difficult to avoid this framing, I suggest that you adopt the standard framing. At the very least, you should not accuse an organization that uses the standard framing of being misleading or inaccurate.

I like Lee Price's response:

Your analysis of what constitutes a “cut” is internally contradictory. While asserting that price indexing initial benefits would not constitute a “cut,” your analysis asserts that “current law will force an actual cut in benefits eventually.” In fact, average benefits will grow substantially between now and 2042. As a result, your assertion that “all benefits would have to be cut 27% when the Social Security Trust Fund is exhausted in the year 2042” is “false” in your own framework because benefits would never fall below where they are today. On the other hand, if that would be a 27% “cut” (and I think it would), then Plan 2 would cause a 46% cut and there is nothing false about the MoveOn.org ad.

Your commentary also ignores the central point of the ad – that the Bush initiative would lead to “working retirement.” Administration spokesmen and their allies have consistently touted as one of the advantages of their proposal that it would cause many more people to stay in the work force longer.

I've updated the date on this post so more people will see the new developments.

12 Comments:

At 2:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's the thing, and listen up you commie hippies.

Its my money, and the fact that you think you can keep taking it and giving it to other people indefinetly has nothing to do with the fact, the reallocation of wealth is not a beneficial basis for a society.

That's whats wrong with social security.

 
At 5:15 PM, Blogger Luke Francl said...

I welcome you to try to win an election with that message.

 
At 9:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, just did. (What a tard.)

 
At 9:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am with the first anonymous. All you old people need to GET A JOB. No more sponging off the system. You say you're tired and you have arthritis? Fooey! Start making quilts and birdhouses!

 
At 4:41 PM, Blogger Chris Dykstra said...

"Its my money, and the fact that you think you can keep taking it and giving it to other people indefinetly has nothing to do with the fact, the reallocation of wealth is not a beneficial basis for a society."

That's exactly right. Who do you think is taking your money, anonymous, and to whom do you think it's being distributed?

I will tell you - your money is being taken from you and given to big businesses and the very wealthy.

I am a business owner. I employ a reasonable number of people. I guarantee you, my friend, the point of the conservative effort to "reform" social security is not to make my employees or you any better off.

Open your eyes.

 
At 9:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ya know Dykstra, I got curious to find out what a good American you are, how you're looking out for me and all, and since you employ so many hard working Americans, I figured it would be pretty easy to track you down. I was waiting for dinner to cook, so I started on the link from your sig.

Technology Exec, huh? Not much to go. Kind of surprising, I'd want to promote a business if I had one, but I can appreciate how you'd want to keep it seperate.

Anyway, followed that to: http://www.duckstrap.com/Blog/blog.php
duckstrap - pretty interesting. No resume there, no mention of the business. Not that that's odd.

Surfed the link to Senate District 60 where our man of the people Chris is District Director for Issues and Programs as well as Ward 7 Precinct 4 Associate Chair.

I got to hand it to you. You really are making the effort, you're plugged in.

Is it the same guy? The Chris we know so well? Well, the district 60 link was on duckstrap and the contact email for this C. Dykstra is duckstrap@yahoo... looks like a fit. There's a phone number too.

I'm not going to post it, its listed if you really want it. Anyway, decided to google it, on the off chance that as a small business owner he was using the phone for business too. (Or business phone for politics - whatever. You get the idea.) That's what led me to EPAM Systems.

The company's website is a little tough to read, I know a few languages but Russian isn't one. Maybe all you fellow travelers can do a little better.

http://www.epam-group.ru/aboutus-pr-04022002-1.htm

Well you don't need to know alot about Cyrillic to get this:

"Штат Миннесота: Chris Dykstra" (The phone number is there. Its not some random CD in MN.)

Now, I have no objection to global companies. I work for one. I don't have anything against Russians. Its a fact, my best friend speaks Russian. The guy in the office next door to mine is Russian. Russia's probably a great place.

But its not America, and I set out to see what Mr Dykstra was doing for me. So what is EPAM?

About EPAM Systems

Established in 1993, EPAM is a leading provider of software development outsourcing services, e-business, enterprise relationship management, and content management solutions. EPAM delivers low-cost, high-quality software solutions globally using an onshore/offshore development model. Headquartered in Princeton, NJ, EPAM Systems has development centers in Moscow, Russia and Minsk, Belarus. EPAM's customer base includes such companies as Colgate-Palmolive, Halliburton, Verizon Communications, Samsung America, West Group, Carefirst Blue Cross Blue Shield, Bally of Switzerland and other.

That's right, Chris Dykstra is helping out you and I by sending American jobs (on behalf of Halliburton no less) to Moscow and Minsk.

Follow a link from there to a Informationweek article - http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020829S0015
called "The Politics Of Outsourcing"

Among the progressive things our man Chris enables, "With the volatility in the financial-services industry, outsourcing is especially crucial now, she (Jane Landon, VP and CIO at Prudential Insurance Co. of America) says. "I can take my offshore people down to zero on two weeks' notice," she says. "But I couldn't do that in the U.S." Another benefit: She expects a 55% savings as the company moves forward with other offshore projects."

Well, I'm glad I opened my eyes.

What a great American you are, and how pleased I am to know that you're employing a "reasonable number of people." I'm especially pleased you pay them 55% less and will drop them in a NY minute (on behalf of Halliburton no less.)

Its obvious that social security reform isn't going to help your employees, but I'm gonna think for myself Comrade.

 
At 11:27 PM, Blogger Chris Dykstra said...

If you are looking for some kind of dirty secret look elsewhere. I am a capitalist. If there is one thing you will learn about me if you spend two seconds with me is this: I am a capitalist. Everybody who knows me knows that.

The correct url is http://www.epam.com. EPAM is an American Company. It's an American success story. I don't own it, but I wish I did. I was a VP of eCommerce there for many years. I am very conservative in my views that outsourcing is not bad for the economy. That's what makes me a member of the radical center. I believe enlightened business relationships are the key to social and economic justice. I believe America will lead the world to this goal, provided we can get anti-competition elitists out of the way - that's Bush and his eat-the-poor economic plan.

I now own a local technology consulting company with an outsourcing capability. We employ more people here than I do offshore. In many ways, I can employ people here because I have an offshore capability.

The global economy isn't going away.

Yes, I am active in the Democratic Party! I am proud of my work in the DFL. My contact information is there to help people connect with the DFL should they be inclined to do so. Feel free to drop me a line. I'd be happy to talk to you about it.

 
At 10:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's pathetic.

Do workers deserve a fair wage? Why do you undercut it?
Do workers deserve retirement benefits or to be fired without notice?
What's the retirement plan of your overseas "employees?"

"I can employ people here because I have an offshore capability."

The ends justify the means? Is that your position?

How about the end of a free Iraq? Doesn't that justify US aggression? (Its your arguement.)

Privatizing Soc Sec will mean that some people will have retirements - just like outsourcing will make some jobs here at home.

You make me sick.

 
At 1:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha, ha, ha, I can't believe someone cared enough to find out what you are about Dykstra. Good humor, and kinda sad.

 
At 9:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 9:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow - been censored. There's nothing like a fair and open discussion of ideas. And this is nothing like a fair and open discussion of ideas.

 
At 9:46 AM, Blogger ryan said...

Straight-up name calling will be deleted at our discretion. Posters such as Swiftee attempt to makes a point before throwing out "moonbat." You've stated your thoughts on what you know about Chris' work already, randomly seeding a 3-4 word comment of "hypo-chris = chris dykstra" on various posts is stupid and juvenile and may be deleted at will.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home