Firefighters imported for photo ops and PR
Oy.
Frustrated: Fire crews to hand out fliers for FEMA
"There are all of these guys with all of this training and we're sending them out to hand out a phone number," an Oregon firefighter said. "They [the hurricane victims] are screaming for help and this day [of FEMA training] was a waste."
Firefighters say they want to brave the heat, the debris-littered roads, the poisonous cottonmouth snakes and fire ants and travel into pockets of Louisiana where many people have yet to receive emergency aid.
But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.
posted by Chris Dykstra @ 1:32 AM |
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19 Comments:
While I do not condone nor support such shady endevours. When will your feds and bush bashing stop and start looking at all the truth. There is so much more wrong that was caused by the local officials that continues to this day. see the red cross for some horrifiying examples http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html
Dave
After 911, there were huge numbers of firemen that turned out to help. I think its safe to expect that this will happen again.
FEMA should have a protocol for organizing volunteer fire brigades that includes support, min qualifications etc. It sounds like this happened, which is an improvement, but the execution had a couple of flaws.
First, it was too far from the disaster site (Atlanta.) Too much urgency and willingness to help was lost.
Second, training that should have been prerequisite was instead incorporated into the process (sexual harrasment training for example.)
Third, once deployed its essential that the volunteers be utilized for meaningful work. Halliburton can be contracted to hand out flyers - and organizing the displaced into contracted work groups isn't a bad idea either - however, its not what I'd call self actualizing behaviors that reward volunteers.
So credit to FEMA for organizing volunteers, but looking like a D- for execution.
This is the kind of meaningful criticism that make an effective change for the better. Now contrast this to "OMFG!! BUSH SUCKS!!!" See what I mean?
Anyway Crispy,
That second bullet clearly says "The state Homeland Security Department." That "state" would refer to Louisiana, not the Federali's
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/
That's be the link. Easy mistake to make. Regardless, I do support complete evacuation and agree with this the state and local authorities decision to keep the Red Cross out. I suspect that the feds agree too.
I think there will be time to re evaluate if opening a central shelter was a good idea or not. I suspect the question will come down to "did the availability of the shelter discourage people from evacuating in large enough numbers to complicate (or even necessitate) relief operations?" Also, "How many were actually helpded by the shelter?" Certainly there's a tradeoff here. Saving lives needs to be weighed against the potential to save more lives and so on.
I don't think anyone can answer these today.
-Censored
Since Censored has already correctly pointed out is was the STATE homeland department that kept them out in point #2. In point #1 when you ready National Guard you should read "State controlled National Guard", the guard is operates under the control of the state unless otherwise designated by the govenor. The govenor has not done so.
As for point #3 it is well established that the original plan was never implemented by the local authorities.
Once the dome was opened as a last ditch refuge efforts to ensure security, provisions and aid must be made by the local authorities. Not only was this task not done it was deliberately blocked to serve a longer term goal.
All one needs to do is look at other hurricane affected communties over say the last 10 years and compare pre and post storm actions to understand that the tragedy in N.O. is criminal and those responsible are not the feds or Bush.
Dave
It's a waste of time trying to reason with a Bush supporter. They will never admit their "administration" did anything wrong. It's just a given. Responsibility is a four-letter word these days.
Signed,
Not Anonymous
Constructive criticism is the ticket.
The local response lacked efficiency, organization and capability because they were wiped out for the most part.
Once a federal disaster is declared, command and control passes from local to federal authorities.
In this case, Bush declared it on 8.29, the day the Katrina came aground. He was still on vacation. Again, he showed much more urgency and engagement in the Schiavo case. (He managed to get himself home from the ranch to sign "emergency legislation" after two days in that "crisis.")
After that, "Brownie" managed to shake himself from whatever reverie he was in to underwhelm the nation with this utterly, shitty incompetent, stupid, retarded response:
FEMA Chief Waited Until After Storm Hit
No excuses. It's really very simple. Bush was on vacation when New Orleans was drowning. The guy he hired to handle situations exactly like this didn't do his job and cost a bunch of people their lives.
Pointing fingers at State authorities is completely without class. Mature people, people with integrity and class own up to their mistakes. Quality leadership doesn't point the finger down the food chain. It's utterly base. The
American people deserve better.
Chris -
Its as simple as you being flat out wrong. Control has not passed to the Feds nor has responsibility.
The NG is still under control of the Gov, despite repeated requests to cede control to FEMA. The idea that the New Orleans police had control EVEN BEFORE THE FLOOD is ignorant.
You know very well that the President never really takes vacation, and in fact he was closer to the situation in Texas than he would be in DC. That nonsense is simply "Bush Bashing."
Your premisises are false.
-Censored
"All one needs to do is look at other hurricane affected communties over say the last 10 years and compare pre and post storm actions to understand that the tragedy in N.O. is criminal and those responsible are not the feds or Bush."
Refresh my memory about the last time an major American city was destroyed by a natural disaster.
Hmm...
There is no comparison between Katrina and previous hurricanes. The closest thing is the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.
After which, I might add, there was a superior response from the local and national government. In 1906!
Selective hearing and reading at It's best.
Kirkkitsch, What the hell are you talking about? The only person I have seen stand in front of a camera and admit that mistakes were made is the president. Mayor nagrin certainly hasn't, and I don't think I have seen anything from the governor. This whole mess started on the ground. A 3rd of the police chiefs officers "ran or became part of the problem". The Mayor had no authority to order the national guard to do anything and the governor Isn't speaking. Then the time it took the feds to move there ass is the next question. The only thing I can say in defense of homeland security is The coast guard is part of that department, And they kicked ass. So like the president said, Some things worked well, others not so well. We will duplicate what worked and fix what didn't. I would say that's the first step to taking responsibility for his failures.
Scott k
Funny you should mention the SF earthquake.
Much of the damage that was done was the result of fires that raged out of control for days following the earthquake. One of the reasons was a water shortage and one of the major reasons was...
The Sierra Club
From their web site,
Highlights of the Sierra Club's History
1892 - Sierra Club founded on May 28 with 182 charter members. John Muir elected first President. In its first conservation campaign, Club leads effort to defeat a proposed reduction in the boundaries of Yosemite National Park.
So what? Well, they deprived the city of the freshwater supply they needed. One that could have made a very big difference in how dry everything was, and subsequent firefighting as well.
Its fair to say 1000's died as a result of Sierra Club's activities.
Well, now?
The Sierra Club, "“working to keep the Atchafalaya Basin, wet and wild.” Filed a suit in the 90's, one that was settled by the Clinton Era administration (whose environmental legecy is now being seen) to stop a levee project that would have raised and reinforced the Mississippi levees.
The last time a major city was destroyed? Also (in part) due to the Sierra Club. Interesting coincidence, no?
-Censored
Only a conservative lickspittle like you would shout "don't play the blame game" on cue from his masters at GOP HQ, only to draw the most tenuous of connections between an environmental group and natural catastrophes.
Part of the reason the damage was so bad in New Orleans was that the wetlands were cleared for canals. This made the storm surge worse than it otherwise would've been. I wonder if the Sierra Club was for or against that?
The failure to protect New Orleans is obviously a multi-decade, bipartisan failure.
The flawed evacuation of New Orleans, which killed thousands, is also a bipartisan affair. But FEMA and DHS are in charge of responding to natural disasters. They failed utterly, and no amount of spinning can change that. Thousands of people died because FEMA fucked up. FEMA fucked up because it is run by an incompetent who was appointed by...George W. Bush.
The buck stops where?
censored, are you serious? go read up on the 1906 earthquake.
luke, a superior response? are you being facetious? The mayor issued a shoot to kill order. and this editorial from 1906:
The pleasing and popular assumption that in all this trouble our mayor rose to the occasion calm and dignified like the hero of a melodrama, is founded on rumor and the good report of his friends rather than on the plain facts of the case. Undoubtedly, he did his best; but we are inclined to think that the praise he has elicited from many quarters is an impulsive tribute to a manly effort to meet a trying crisis rather than the homage called forth by clear thinking and prompt action at a time when ability and achievement are vastly more important than mere zeal and good will. We expect a general to win victories, not friends. When the complete history of the event comes to be written we suspect that the fire will be found to have been handled by the civic authorities without system, decision or thoroughness; that the civil power was a clog to the military from the start, and that it was only when the direction of affairs was finally shifted entirely from the political to the professional head–that is, from the mayor to General Funston–that anything like control of the situation was possible. We do not make these surmises in any random or reckless way. We merely sum up a general impression gathered from various reliable sources by people who saw at close range what was going on in the difficult job of saving much of our city by blowing up some of it
-lj
I said it was superior because the Federal response was faster (in 19! 0! 6!) than it was for Katrina.
Read this timeline from Daily Kos:
The earthquake struck at 5:13 AM.
By 7 AM federal troops had reported to the mayor.
By 8 AM they were patrolling the entire downtown area and searching for survivors.
The second quake struck at 8:14 AM.
By 10:05 AM the USS Chicago was on its way from San Diego to San Francisco; by 10:30 the USS Preble had landed a medical team and set up an emergency hospital.
By 11 AM large parts of the city were on fire; troops continued to arrive throughout the day, evacuating people from the areas threatened by fire to emergency shelters and Golden Gate Park.
St. Mary's hospital was destroyed by the fire at 1 PM, with no loss of life, the staff and patients having already been evacuated across the bay to Oakland.
By 3 PM troops had shot several looters, and dynamited buildings to make a firebreak; by five they had buried dozens of corpses, the morgue and the police pistol range being unable to hold any more.
At 8:40 PM General Funston requested emergency housing - tents and shelters - from the War Department in Washington; all of the tents in the U.S. Army were on their way to San Francisco by 4:55 AM the next morning.
Prisoners were evacuated to Alcatraz, and by April 20 (two days after the earthquake) the USS Chicago had reached San Francisco, where it evacuated 20,000 refugees.
Whew - things gettin' hot in here!
Sierra Club... 1906... brain getting foggy...
I remain incredulous that anyone would think the response to this disaster was just hunky-dory, couldn't have gone better, this administation can do no wrong. That's just pathetic and sad. Demand better of your leaders, people.
Meanwhile, this is kinda funny - today I came up #2 on Google search for "Fire Michael Brown" - below Malkin, above Andrew Sullivan. Looks like I just dropped to #6 or so, below Suicide Girls and the Times-Picayune.
However, I'm #1 on Yahoo for Party Sluts. Thanks.
Chuck - you are flat out distorting the facts.
No one said the response couldn't have been better. No one. You're not incredulous, you're just making stuff up.
In your mind, "if response is bad" = "Bush is evil" Its as if there is no other event, only an opportunity to blame Bush. Its tired and played out. You lost an election with it already, its getting no traction, but its irritating. Just hang it up.
FEMA certainly could have done better, but the Gov and the Mayor are the responsible parties here IMHO. Now we can disagree about that, but you need evidence. And you've offered none.
I've cited the police exodus, the mayor's declaration of "shelters" that lacked resources & stymied evacuation efforts, failure to control looting, failure to utilize city buses...the list goes on. The Gov STILL HASN'T ceded control of the NG to FEMA, failed to mobilize enough NG, nor deploy them fast enough nor effectively and so on.
In the mean time, the coast guard was rescuing people while the storm was going on!
You've offered, "Bush was in Texas" Good hell, Texas is CLOSER!
Luke,
WTF? You get your history from Kos?
Its a fact that SF had a water shortage. Its a fact that they tried to tap the reservior Yosemite and that the Sierra Club was founded to stop that which it did. Its also clear what the results of the earthquake and fire in 1906 were. There is little dispute what an adaquate ready supply of water could have done either.
None of this is in doubt. My point was that its odd the 1906 events came up at all, and stranger still that the Sierra Club will be found to be a major cause of the loss of human life, again.
Now you may choose to ignore that fact, you may call it irrelevant, or you may say that there was a greater good being served by the Sierra Club (like your line about canals - newsflash, the levees weren't topped, they failed.) But to simply deny history because it isn't politically expedient for your donors is no way to get ahead.
-Censored
The comparison of San Fransico is silly at best. The reason the feds when on the scene so quickly is because they where housed at a based called the Citadel (now closed) which just so happens to be right next to downtown. The second fact that makes this whole comparison silly is the affected area of the hurricane is an area roughly 150 miles by 100 miles, roughly 90,000 square miles total. I could not find the exact size of the city readily, but am I willing to guess that it is a miniscule fraction of the area of the hurricane and the population was significantly less than todays affected population.
Since was Luke has dismissed my aurgument about hurricane perparedness and recovery in other parts of the country. Lets look to Florida they have been hit by the 6 hurricane in 13 months. Do we see the kind of chaos as seen in LA, no. Ask yourself why? Because Florida is run by the brother of the President? I think not, more likely by extensive planning, preparation and critically reevaluation of results by LOCAL and STATE officials. Many of the same issues that plagued the LA area happenned last year with Ivan where improvments made to the emergency preparedness of LA? No it got worse.
As for the properly building the sea walls, levees and dykes in N.O. it probably would not have made much difference as the largest break appears to have been breached by a very large barge.
The whole area of N.O. was not prepared from the individual citizens on up to the state goverment is the direct cause of the tragedy.
FEMA initially did a very poor job, but where hampered by too many failures at the local level. Overall the job is now getting done and is improving hourly.
Dave
Side note to Kirk, I do not post contact information since a tolerant and compassionate lefty tried to get my fired from my job.
You can't dispute the timeline I provided, so you question its source.
You can blame the Sierra Club for the 1906 earthquake fire, but that's stupid on its face. Even if construction had started immediately, the water wouldn't have been ready.
Examine this timeline: 1898, water rights applied for. 1906, earthquake. 1913, water rights granted. 1923, dam finished.
It took 10 years to build the dam and water system. If they'd started in 1898, it would've been done in 1908...after the earthquake.
Finally, there were other potential sites the city could've pursued. It wasn't Hetch Hetchy or bust.
As with the earthquake, your conception of what went wrong with the levees is laughably flawed.
The levees didn't fail.
It was the flood walls:
Al Naomi is the man who manages them for the Army Corps of Engineers. He was probably the first to understand what was about to happen to New Orleans.
"Flood walls are unforgiving. They’re either there or they’re not," Naomi says.
The walls were designed in 1965 to withstand a Category 3 storm. Category 4 Katrina pushed her surge over the top.
"It just was overtopped and the water started pouring over the support for the flood wall, failed and it just pushed out and toppled over and that was it," Naomi explains.
Naomi was at a loss when asked how this engineering disaster could have been prevented.
"You see there was not sufficient money or time to do anything about this," Naomi says. "If someone had said, 'O.K. here is a billion dollars, stop this failure from happening for a Category 4,' it couldn’t have been done in time. I’d of had to start 20 years ago to where I feel today I would’ve been safe from a Category 4 storm like Katrina.
"Sure it should have been done 20 years ago but what can we do about that? You have to recognize before we had Category 3 protection we didn’t have anything."
They were overtopped, and failed. Their failure was the result of twenty years of neglect. But the storm surge was more powerful because the wetlands were removed.
Dave,
The reason you can't compare New Orleans to other hurricanes is because New Orleans flooded completely. Other hurricanes cause flooding, but they mostly just blow stuff over. Thousands of people aren't trapped on their roofs.
You're right that the comparison to the earthquake isn't very good. But we haven't lost that many cities. What else would you compare it to?
I need to reiterate: the failure in New Orleans was of two parts.
1. The neglect for the levee system and the ecological destruction that made storm surges worse.
2. The utter failure of government to deal with the crisis once it happened.
this is by far the most enetrtaining thread i have read, sierra club, skull and bones, illuminati!! hey, do you know what happens when the ground moves? pipes break, hydrants fail. come visit, we have several museums explaining not only earthquakes, but the 06 quake as well. (shhh, firemen used water from the bay to put out fires)
Luke - I was making a point about the response in 1906, not the timing or swiftness of. Both dailys here (or maybe just the examiner) published extensive stories in april (99 years, oh just wait for our big 100 year celebration!) regarding the local, state and federal response to the 06 quake, and it is widely believed that these actions (shoot to kill, using dynamite which contributed to new fires...) was more of a hinderence to relief efforts then previously thought. Roosevelt rejected foriegn aid to the city as well! Who cares if the feds are here in five minutes after the Bay Bridge collapses if they arrive with gross incompetence and a Ryder truck of explosives. I'm no Bush apologist, though when the big one hits us again, the last thing I want is Marine One landing in Union Square with Dubya and Dick proclaiming that they have things under control. Run for the hills, of which, thankfully, we have many.
lj
Nice to see you so defensive, Censored.
(Damn, you're roping me in again!)
By the same token, please put your tired "Bush = evil" voodoo doll to rest. You've poked so many holes in it, surely even you can see there's nothing there. Resorting to "you lost the election" even? My, my. Nothing to say.
Also nice to see you admit FEMA certainly could have done better. That's a good start. And, apparently you left your comment before reading my latest post about local and state. Probably because you wanted to spout off... that's fine.
Bush's physical proximity may not be all that relevant - it's his mental proximity that has me worried.
You should be concerned that your president vacations for 2 days after the biggest disaster to hit American soil in modern times. By your reaction here, if we're attacked and Bush is lounging on the ranch while a city burns, you'd still be defending him. I can only shake my head, because that's shameful.
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