The American War: Is There Hope?
Wake up, folks. We're in an ideological war with these folks and the sooner you realize that the better. The goal of the modern conservative movement, as embodied by George W. Bush, is not just a simple majority of conservative thought – rather, it is the elimination of everything but conservative thought. In their dream world, a debate over war in Iran would be between differing ideas on whether a standard issue invasion or a tactical nuclear strike would best suffice. Any other sort of rational solution would be relegated to derision in the right-wing media echo chamber.
The only way to get around this is to simply reject them. By reject them, I mean deny them any sort of adult consideration. Cease the boneheaded notion that they may actually "have a point", because at best they're looking for somewhere to stick in the knife.
Is there any hope for sane dialog in this country, especially in the blogosphere? Oliver Willis is right, in that the new breed of conservatives wants to destroy the left. I have John Hinderaker on film telling me, as a former communist, that he's seen the left from the inside. And his mission is to destroy the left. Destroy.
We are in the middle of a raging ideology war. I'm calling it the American War, because it's the battle over the soul and future of our country. Oliver Willis recognizes this, and he's ready for battle in his ideological tank.
I tend to want to build bridges. More viewpoints are better. Find common ground, things we can agree upon. But these days, walking out onto the public stage, you're faced with sniper fire the moment you open your mouth.
The polarized left and right are pushing each other to extremes. People will tire of this. We can only destroy for so long, until it's intolerable or there's nothing left. Stop fighting, start talking. Stop destroying, start building the country we want.
Is there room for a rational centrism? Or is such a notion doomed to be destroyed by both sides?
posted by Chuck Olsen @ 2:11 PM |
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8 Comments:
It may, for now, be the most civil of civil wars, but in order to achieve what we want to achieve, which is certainly an ideal and not a wholesale elimination of the competition, sometimes you need all sorts of people doing all sorts of things. In a battle like this, unity is important, uniformity is not.
There are bullies on their side, big talkers that like to talk big, and there needs to be someone on our side ready to give the big talker a big fat lip (I think we have a few volunteers already).
There are the irrational on their side, and they may be met by our own irrational thinkers, or they may be met by a peacemaker who can assure them that their irrationality will have a place in our ideal.
Surely there is movement on this front, and the best we can do is sound the alarm as you and Oliver have. We don't all have to have the same talking points, we don't all have to be on message, but we all need to be aware of the struggle and do what we can for what we believe is right. Because what we believe to be right doesn't involve doe eyed minions supporting our elected leaders like religious saviors.
This very conversation gives me hope. I think. :-)
Yes. The Left needs to get better at - well, having a case, learning how to frame it, and taking it to the people.
Republicans tend not to tolerate dissension in their ranks, although it happens anyway. It's both a strength and a weakness. The left values diverse viewpoints - also a strength and a weakness. Lefty blogs have been equally guilty of not tolerating criticism, even from their own kind.
Crystal, it sounds like you're agreeing with Oliver Willis then? Not exactly getting in the tank, but stop engaging people who are only out to destroy us. Of course that's only a small percentage of conservatives (though it feels like more in the blogosphere.)
I don't think half the country is exactly conservative, but half of them did vote that way. I just don't know if it's possible or desirable to not engage vocal conservatives. Call me old-fashioned, but I still believe in debating ideas. However, I believe in debating ideas with other people who believe in debating ideas. At some point, personally, it does become a drain. That's exactly what trolls are - a drain. A black hole meant to drain our strength and energy.
And YES - we believe in Freedom, Equality, and Justice! And a few other things (scroll down). This is exactly the kind of thought and spirit I always envisioned with New Patriot.
One of the most entertaining things about the internet is the ability to REALY see what the "True Believers" (tm) of both sides think. Not the feel good bull crap they shovel on us by the bushel basket but what they think of themselves, their opposition and those of us who take neither side.
From reading several sites like this I take it the left sees the right as a bunch of ignorant neanderthals who should just shut up and vote for Democrats instead of the Republicans who have bambozeled those foolish savages.
It seems the view of those who dont like either of your candidates is they are children who need to have their hands held and led to the glory that is voting for your candidates.
Either way you seem to have very low opinions of them and exceptionaly high opinions of your own people. Kinda the pot calling the kettle black if you give a crap about the opinion of one of those little children you want to hand hold into the voting booth.
Statements such as "There are bullies on their side, big talkers that like to talk big, and there needs to be someone on our side ready to give the big talker a big fat lip " while denying your own bullies, as if you are neophytes to the political landscape and never would think to bully the opposition. I think the previous administration is a good example of how your folks got the bully thing down cold already and dont need any training in fattening a few lips.
Another comment claimed "They (conservatives) built it by appealing to the native interests and prejudices of the average American, many of whom had not yet articulated a political voice when the movement started, using rhetoric garbed in the guise of common sense," Well, speaking as neither left or right I have to say the left has spread plenty of this style of BS around themselves.
Later the same poster said "By the way, we are the centrists. I am becoming more of an absolutist of the Constitution every day, and if that isn't American, I don't know what is." First off, center aint where the politcal left is, unless your measure of "left" is Che Guevara or Trotsky. As for the Constitution... amazing how those on the outside of power start crying about the Constitution. The right did it while Clinton was in office, now that they have taken power such archaic concepts have gone by the wayside. Once your side takes power (if that ever happens again) you will blow off such limits by claiming "living document" and "the founders were realy liberals.. um.. slave owning, plantation running free market liberals... yeah realy."
So keep on shoveling folks, its real funny to those us us who cant stand football and love a good down and dirty politcal fight.
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From reading several sites like this I take it the left sees the right as a bunch of ignorant neanderthals who should just shut up and vote for Democrats instead of the Republicans who have bambozeled those foolish savages.It seems the view of those who dont like either of your candidates is they are children who need to have their hands held and led to the glory that is voting for your candidates.
Wow, that's rather over-the-top. What specific posts led you to those specific conclusions? My god, I've never heard anybody say anything about "the glory of voting for our candidates." Holding our nose in the voting booth- now that I've heard from liberals here.
I took Tom's comment to mean there are bullies on both sides. Obviously that's true. I also took Daily Kos' "mobilization" to bombard Hinderaker's law office with calls and such rather bullying behavior - in retaliation for a nastygram email.
Part of the point of my post: There is nastiness on both sides, and it's only getting worse. And this is not how we should conduct ourselves. This nasty polarization alienates people. It makes our politics into shit. That's a terrible thing, and I don't want that for our country.
As to your comments about our apparently fleeting dedication to American ideals - well, you're wrong. And if all this political fighting is mere entertainment to you, what exactly do you have to offer here? Anything constructive, or are you part of the problem?
More of the "we're right, and you'll see!"
There is such a thing as having the courage of your convictions. There is also such a thing as tilting at windmills.
This sort of dig in and fight to the death serves two purposes. First, it makes it easy to riducule the supporters. That belittles the whole left, not just the hardcores. The other thing it does is effectivly prevent any sort of progress on a variety of issues where consistent incremental change would undoubted be successful.
Begin with the end in mind. Set the long term goal and then act in the short term in the best way to ultimately achieve it.
You guys have given us some good new slogans!
New Patriot: Absolute truth from a truly unbiased knowledgeable outlet. Why are you laughing?
New Patriot: No freezerful of abortions here. Keep movin'.
New Patriot: "We're right, and you'll see!"
New Patriot: It's OK for Sally to have two Mommies. SpongeBob said.
By the way, I'd like to thank you Erkie for your calm and (mostly) reasoned arguments.
Unfortunately, some (neo)conservatives *do* want to destroy us. Like I said, I have it on tape. And their wicked Machiavellian tactics - SwiftBoat vets, USA Next - are a sympton of that.
We're going through growing pains, but we shant implode or be destroyed. We're just as much part of the fabric of this country as you are.
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