1/16/2005

Punishing torturers

My favorite biker leather daddy tells us to "S-T-F-U" about torture, because Garner was sentenced to ten years in prison.

A good first step. But the buck stops where?

The government has tried to limit domestic political damage by pinning the blame on Garner as "ringleader" of a small group of "abusers" (maybe I should add "Just a few bad apples" to my list of torture justifications).

I've already linked to it, but Andrew Sullivan's article in the New York Times about the events that led to Abu Ghraib is worth linking to again. If you haven't read it, please do. It's an important piece.

The Bush administration was sending out mixed signals on torture.

The critical enabling decision was the president's insistence that prisoners in the war on terror be deemed ''unlawful combatants'' rather than prisoners of war. The arguments are theoretically sound ones - members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban are not party to the Geneva Convention and their own conduct violates many of its basic demands. But even at the beginning, President Bush clearly feared the consequences of so broad an exemption for cruel and inhumane treatment. So he also insisted that although prisoners were not legally eligible for humane treatment, they should be granted it anyway. The message sent was: these prisoners are beneath decent treatment, but we should still provide it. That's a strangely nuanced signal to be giving the military during wartime.

You can see the same strange ambivalence in Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's decision to approve expanded interrogation techniques in December 2002 for Guantánamo inmates - and then to revoke the order six weeks later. The documents show that the president was clearly warned of the dangers of the policy he decided upon - Colin Powell's January 2002 memo is almost heart-breakingly prescient and sane in this regard - but he pressed on anyway. Rumsfeld's own revocation of the order suggests his own moral qualms about what he had unleashed.

But Bush clearly leaned toward toughness. Here's the precise formulation he used: ''As a matter of policy, the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of Geneva.'' (My italics.)

Notice the qualifications. The president wants to stay not within the letter of the law, but within its broad principles, and in the last resort, ''military necessity'' can overrule all of it. According to his legal counsel at the time, Alberto R. Gonzales, the president's warmaking powers gave him ultimate constitutional authority to ignore any relevant laws in the conduct of the conflict. Sticking to the Geneva Convention was the exclusive prerogative of one man, George W. Bush; and he could, if he wished, make exceptions.

With these guidelines, Assisant Attorney General Jay S. Bybee came up with a new definition of "torture":

The president's underlings got the mixed message. Bybee analyzed the relevant statutes against torture to see exactly how far the military could go in mistreating prisoners without blatant illegality. His answer was surprisingly expansive. He argued that all the applicable statutes and treaty obligations can be read in such a way as to define torture very narrowly. Bybee asserted that the president was within his legal rights to permit his military surrogates to inflict ''cruel, inhuman or degrading'' treatment on prisoners without violating strictures against torture. For an act of abuse to be considered torture, the abuser must be inflicting pain ''of such a high level of intensity that the pain is difficult for the subject to endure.'' If the abuser is doing this to get information and not merely for sadistic enjoyment, then ''even if the defendant knows that severe pain will result from his actions,'' he's not guilty of torture. Threatening to kill a prisoner is not torture; ''the threat must indicate that death is 'imminent.' '' Beating prisoners is not torture either. Bybee argues that a case of kicking an inmate in the stomach with military boots while the prisoner is in a kneeling position does not by itself rise to the level of torture.

The path to Abu Ghraib is now clear. It leads directly from senior administration officials, and ultimately the President himself.

Who was responsible? There are various levels of accountability. But it seems unmistakable from these documents that decisions made by the president himself and the secretary of defense contributed to confusion, vagueness and disarray, which, in turn, led directly to abuse and torture. The president bears sole responsibility for ignoring Colin Powell's noble warnings. The esoteric differences between legal ''abuse'' and illegal ''torture'' and the distinction between ''prisoners of war'' and ''unlawful combatants'' were and are so vague as to make the abuse of innocents almost inevitable.

And so, is it enough that Garner was punished? No.

And the damage done was intensified by President Bush's refusal to discipline those who helped make this happen. A president who truly recognized the moral and strategic calamity of this failure would have fired everyone responsible. But the vice president's response to criticism of the defense secretary in the wake of Abu Ghraib was to say, ''Get off his back.'' In fact, those with real responsibility for the disaster were rewarded. Rumsfeld was kept on for the second term, while the man who warned against ignoring the Geneva Conventions, Colin Powell, was seemingly nudged out. The man who wrote a legal opinion maximizing the kind of brutal treatment that the United States could legally defend, Jay S. Bybee, was subsequently rewarded with a nomination to a federal Court of Appeals. General Sanchez and Gen. John P. Abizaid remain in their posts. Alberto R. Gonzales, who wrote memos that validated the decision to grant Geneva status to inmates solely at the president's discretion, is now nominated to the highest law enforcement job in the country: attorney general. The man who paved the way for the torture of prisoners is to be entrusted with safeguarding the civil rights of Americans.

Torture is wrong. I will not tolerate it, and I will not STFU about it.

P.S.: Mitch Berg has a link to something that I haven't addressed: terrorists who can't be broken. I think this is important, but I haven't said anything on it because it's clear that most of the people in Abu Ghraib, who were picked up mostly by random sweeps, were innocent. However, Sullivan does note in his article that the intelligence used to produce the 9/11 Commission report was procured without torture. I'm sure this will continue to be an issue in the future, so I will keep my eye on it -- and an open mind.

16 Comments:

At 3:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Luke again huh? I'm renaming the template for you dude.

Revised Typical Luke nonsense structure*.

A. Subject intro. TORTURE
1. Let me tell what Right-wingers think. JUST A FEW BAD APPLES
2. Let me tell why its wrong.
BUSH IS AN APPLE!

B. Reply from a righty.
1. Um, we don't think that.
2. You've conveniently ignored "this."

C. Reply to the reply.
1. Liar!
2. Your argument doesn't make sense given the way I've told you that you think.
3. Dismissal of evidence.
a. "This" isn't applicable because it disproves what is OBVIOUSLY correct.
b. "This" is from an "impeachable" source.

*failure to follow the predicted pattern will result in personal attacks.

JUST A WARNING TO ANYONE THAT WOULD CONSIDER RESPONDING TO THIS CLOWN. THIS WILL BE THE RESULT.

 
At 8:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey dimwit. Not only do you not make any sense to anyone who reads your BS, you don't even have a grasp of it yourself.

Earlier, you said that 100% of the prisoners at Abu Griab were covered under the Geneva convention.

Now I know your an idiot, so instead of just letting you continue to step all over your own dick, I guided you directly to the conventions definitions, the one's that Alberto Gonzales was asked to give a legal interpretation of.

I said then that it was clear that Al Qaeda terrorists didn't fall into the conventions guidelines, and the NYT told you so again:

"The arguments are theoretically sound ones - members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban are not party to the Geneva Convention and their own conduct violates many of its basic demands.But you asswipe, have your head so full of shit that you simply cannot or will not feed anything into your pinbrain that disagrees with your programmed conclusion.

Then, despite the fact that everyone who responded to your inane patterings confirmed without any reservation that no-one should condone torture you couldn't help but keep your nose buried in your anti-American leaders butt-crack.

It's clear as day to anyone who isn't rooting for those head chopping, woman murdering, shit eating slimeballs that are killing our countrymen everywhere that the United States, from the President to the White House janitor condemns the use of torture.

But it's just too juicy a piece of shit for you to resist picking up and throwing against our flag again and again.

But by all means Like, don't shut the fuck up. Why don't you march your skinny little ass down to the nearest Legion hall and give those murdering sons-of-bitches what ever little piece of your pea brained mind you can spare.

 
At 11:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carefull Swiftee,

brian the yeti is gonna get all in your face. Interesting how typos become threats - and when words fail him he results to telling on you. Finally, fittingly he resorts to the French.

I've also noticed he spells his name without capitalization. I'm not sure if that's like an ee sort of thing, just another sign of his own recognition of his unimportance.

On second thought, I don't think you need to be too careful. This one isn't big enough to concern yourself over.

 
At 11:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is this, the bemulleted one now has a cheerleading squad? Eh, probably his wife.

 
At 8:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

no I don't think Swiftee has a cheerleading squad, i think enuogh people have seen what a bunch of retards you folks at New patriot are. And after time what a bunch of phony fucks you truly are. I challenge anyone that belongs to the new patriot or anyone that reads this shit to show me any post from you lame asses with insightfull thoughts or ways to change things. What you are good at is waiting for someone else to come up with ideas and then you tear them down. AND EVERYONE IS ON TO YOUR LAME ASS.

 
At 8:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian aka Fuckhead, Ohhh, your going to start sending peoples post around town eh. Hey luke, i think I finally realized the difference between Conservatives and liberals. Conservatives will stand behind there beliefs, even to there death. Liberals will stand behind theres as long as they don't have to get dirty.

 
At 9:08 AM, Blogger ryan said...

AND EVERYONE IS ON TO YOUR LAME ASS.I knew they'd figure us out someday! You may as well tell folks that we all cheat at solitaire, too. Thank you for ruining our big secret, Anonymous!

 
At 9:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

it is interesting to note that 'swiftee' sings the praises of our governor (sorry, not going to call him the "governator") limiting funding for the california eductaion system (not to mention arnold's wonderful call to build a cheaper bay bridge, decrying the cost (Milau, anyone?) and then awarding the new contract to a company instrumental to his election, forgetting Loma Prieta, and thus prolonging the life of that rickety tin death trap constructed on silt with a history of structual woes once the ground starts to shake.), and then he blesses us with a post punctuated with typos, utilizing an argot popular with giggling sixth graders out of the teacher's earshot.
additionally, i don't know why i even care, other then the fact that those who generally admire our governor our star struck churls, thinking that's it cool when a public servent uses catch phrases from grade c films without any irony, while these same people are ones who are, thankfully, not residents and thus, do not have to live with his policies.
-lj

 
At 9:50 AM, Blogger Luke Francl said...

Tom,

Read the damn article.

The Bush administration condemns torture, yes, but promotes the people who made it possible. That is a disgrace.

P.S.: I wasn't the one who said Iraqi prisoners were covered under the Geneva Conventions. That was the Bush administration.

 
At 10:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So predictable. (and pathetic.)

C. Reply to the reply.
1. Liar!
Read the damn article.

2. Your argument doesn't make sense given the way I've told you that you think.
The Bush administration condemns torture, yes, but promotes the people who made it possible. 3. Dismissal of evidence.
a. "This" isn't applicable because it disproves what is OBVIOUSLY correct.
P.S.: I wasn't the one who said Iraqi prisoners were covered under the Geneva Conventions. That was the Bush administration.

b. "This" is from an "impeachable" source.
c. Appeal to authority (new one!)
Read the damn article.

 
At 2:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This moonbat has baffled himself with his own bullshit so often he can't keep it straight in his head any more!


At 9:01 PM, Luke Francl said...

"These are the facts. The Red Cross estimates 75% of the people in Abu Ghraib were innocent. 100% of them were covered under the Geneva Convention."

Read it yourself goofball.

 
At 2:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Luke F:"Any more mashed potatoes mom?"

Mrs. F: "No dear, they're all gone"

Luke F: "Damn that Bush Administration!"

Mrs. F: Luke dear, you ate them.

Luke: Liar!!!

Luke F: "How about biscuits, any more biscuits?"

Mrs. F (shielding herself with her arm and backing away from the table): "No dear, the Bushies got those too."

 
At 2:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is interesting to note that 'swiftee' sings the praises of our governor (sorry, not going to call him the "governator") limiting funding for the california eductaion system (not to mention arnold's wonderful call to build a cheaper bay bridge, decrying the cost (Milau, anyone?) and then awarding the new contract to a company instrumental to his election, forgetting Loma Prieta, and thus prolonging..&etc. blah blah blah"Was there a point in there somewhere lj? Or are you just working off a 3 latte buzz at our expense?

 
At 3:02 PM, Blogger Luke Francl said...

Learn. To. Read.

For example, Newsweek, May 27 2004: The Roots of Torture:

"The Bush administration created a bold legal framework to justify this system of interrogation, according to internal government memos obtained by NEWSWEEK. What started as a carefully thought-out, if aggressive, policy of interrogation in a covert war—designed mainly for use by a handful of CIA professionals—evolved into ever-more ungoverned tactics that ended up in the hands of untrained MPs in a big, hot war. Originally, Geneva Conventions protections were stripped only from Qaeda and Taliban prisoners. But later Rumsfeld himself, impressed by the success of techniques used against Qaeda suspects at Guantanamo Bay, seemingly set in motion a process that led to their use in Iraq, even though that war was supposed to have been governed by the Geneva Conventions. Ultimately, reservist MPs, like those at Abu Ghraib, were drawn into a system in which fear and humiliation were used to break prisoners' resistance to interrogation."

Actually, I'm a little confused Swiftee.

Was what happened at Abu Ghraib an abomination that deserved to be punished, or was it justified because the people who were tortured there weren't covered under the Geneva Convention?

 
At 3:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Actually, I'm a little confused" says Luke

Shocked, shocked I am.

First he uses an appeal to authority.
1. Newseek (MSM source)
2. The quote he uses refers to "aggressive, policy of interrogation" not torture.
3. Even its conclusion only goes so far as, "a system in which fear and humiliation were used to break prisoners' resistance to interrogation." Again, stops short of calling the policy torture.


Then he presents a false dilemma -
1. Was use of torture wrong and need to be punished
OR
2. Were the protections of the Geneva Conventions unwarranted for the prisioners.

(Of course the answer is yes to both.)

Confused and sloppy.

 
At 8:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh, okay, i get it, i'm a stereotype since i reside in california, right? (san francisco, too! assless chaps in the fulsom with a double soy latte!!)
my point was obvious, i thought, though perhaps we need to reduce education funding further.
lj

 

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